28/08/2008 / GEORGIA - RUSSIA
The dark side of South Ossetia
Just after Russian forces stormed the South Ossetian capital, celebrated Russian conductor Valery Gergiev, who grew up in Ossetia, gave a concert to honour the victory. Our Observer there managed to photograph the event with his mobile.
Gergiev gave the concert in Tskhinvali on 21 August. At the same time, the capital of South Ossetia lay in ruins, and Russian troops were rumoured to be carrying out ethnic cleansing just kilometres away from the scene. The conductor arrived on stage with a group of children. In his speech, which was aired live on Russian TV, he condemned Georgia for carrying out a genocide.
A few metres from the concert, Georgian hostages watched the event from the barracks they were being held in. Our Observer managed to access this zone, prohibited to journalists, and take these pictures with his phone. In the foreground you can see the Georgian hostages, and in the back, Gergiev's concert.
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The Western media is lying and has double standards
Submitted by John (not verified) on Wed, 03/09/2008 - 09:05.I fear that the Western media has lost track of things with its attempt to start a new cold war.
The government of Georgia sent its army to control the people in these provinces, and make sure they don't split. This is exactly the same as the Serbian did in Kosovo!
Didn't the Kosovars have the right to self determination? According to the international community (including the Western media) apparently yes.
Don't the South Ossetians have the right to self determination? According to the "West" (including the Western media) apparently not.
Why the double standards? Why you journalists lie like this?
It isn't Russia that invaded Georgia. It's Georgia that invaded South Ossetia, and Russia went to help, at the request of the South Ossetians.
Unregistered user
Re John - the Western media is lying and has double standards
Submitted by Richard (not verified) on Wed, 03/09/2008 - 11:23.Considering that the two 'provinces' (I notice you use that word rather than state or country, which tends to imply self-determination) are recognised globally (also in Russia) as part of Georgia, I would suggest that Georgia had every right to try to bring the two 'provinces' back in to line or perhaps you conveniently forget Chechnia! The West's involvement in Kosovo was simply because of genocide on a vast scale and this has been proven - this has not been proven in South Ossetia (contrary to Russia's 'Putin saved me from a tiger' PR machine), and the other 'province' just used the situation in South Ossetia to jump on the bandwagon.
Give it a break John; it's amazing how the Russians just had 300 odd tanks waiting to rescue the South Ossetians (oh sorry, yes they were peace-keepers weren't they), and proceeded to try to bomb all the oil pipelines to the West. Russia had conveniently given passports to the South Ossetians when technically they were only entitled to Georgian passports - what happens if there are problems with the Poles in Britain? Is Poland going to invade? Since Russia is so keen to provide self determination to part of another country on the basis they also hold Russian passports, will they also give it to Chechnia - I think not. Get a grip John and be very cynical about all politicians, both East, West and in the middle - suggesting the nuking of Poland because they have made a decision that Russia doesn't like . . . or is that the Western media lying again?
Unregistered user
Richard, answer a simple
Submitted by Igor Frolov on Wed, 03/09/2008 - 12:39.Richard, answer a simple question: what for the NATO moves on the east and how Russia can stop it? When the Warsaw block broke up, the USSR and the USA have agreed that will not be accepted new members in the NATO. Also what?
Igor Frolov
Re Igor: Richard, answer a simple question
Submitted by Richard (not verified) on Wed, 03/09/2008 - 14:39.Dear Igor,
To a reasonable degree, I almost agree with you, but conversely shouldn't sovereign states also be able to make their own decision as to whom they side with. Why do you think Poland made their recent decision to host US missile systems - perhaps they feel threatened by Russia now - 'if they can do that to Georgia, perhaps they'll do that to us or the Czechs again, what's to prevent them.' I am sure that Poland would not have hosted missiles before, but Russia has now threatened the former CIS countries and instead of threatening nuke attacks, maybe they should try diplomacy. I am sure this goes down well with some Russian generations who need some nationalistic tub thumping. Oh and by the way if you doubt the PR machine behind Putin then defending a member of the Russian press from a tiger really hits the big time. Putin with his shirt off fighting tigers is about as bad as Bush wrestling steers to the ground or Gordon playing bowls!
Unregistered user
If every sovereign state
Submitted by Santosh (not verified) on Tue, 09/09/2008 - 08:25.If every sovereign state should make there own decisions, why did USA stop Cuba from installing Russian's missiles.
Doesn't USA feels threatened from Russia from this, it is same with Russia when USA comes closer to the east.
Unregistered user
Oh and one further thing
Submitted by Richard (not verified) on Wed, 03/09/2008 - 11:30.Oh and one further thing John (and this is stepping onto your side of the argument), there is no doubt that Mr Saakashvili displayed less that significant diplomatic skills, and is to a great degree responsible - or have the Western media interpreted the causes incorrectly?
Unregistered user
Richard, don't you think
Submitted by John (not verified) on Wed, 03/09/2008 - 13:16.Richard, don't you think that the inhabitants of a place (a province, or a county if you want, and the difference between the two is that "county", and "province" is used for exactly the same political entity in different countries. Other synonyms are "canton", "district", etc.) should decide which country they want to belong with?
Before 1921 South Ossetia was part of Ossetia. Now obviously they want reunification, instead of being part of Georgia, which was imposed upon the indigenous population by the Red Army.
Shouldn't be people decide with whom they want to be?
Or should it be the "western powers" or the "western press"?
What do you think?
Unregistered user
Russian history is amazig
Submitted by Maya Weiner (not verified) on Sun, 14/09/2008 - 11:23.I HAVE QUESTION HOW RUSSIA CAN TALK ABOUT GEORGIAN HISTORY?WHEN RUSSIAN SATAN AND ADMIT CHRISTIANITY IN 10 CENTURY(MEAN WHILE GEORGIANS WERE PUBLISHED OWN LITERATURE ) ,AND STILL DIDN'T ACT AS A CHRISTIANS AND REMAINING AS A SATAN.AND THERE IS NO SUCH AS OSSETIA IT IS REGION OF KARTLY, AND TSKHINVALI NAME IS SAMACHABLO. THE NATION WHO HAS NO OWN LANGUAGE,NO OWN MANUSCRIPT HAS NO RIGHT TO RIPOFF THE ANCIENT COUNTRY APART AND MAKE A NEW MAP!IT IS SO RIDICULOUS OSSETIAS AND ABKHAZIAS HISTORY WILL BEGIN FROM 21ST CENTURY?AND MADVEDIEV SAID THAT ABKHAZIA AND OSSETIA ARE INDEPENDENT AND AS I KNOW INDEPENDENT COUNTRY HAS TO CHOOSE THE OWN PRESIDENT?BUT PUTIN AND MEDVEDIEV TAKING DECISION BY THEMSELVES WHO WILL BE PRESIDENT AND THEY CHOOSE SEPARATISTS. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!
SOME SHORT PART OF GEORGIAN HISTORY
Georgia is the country of ancient culture and historical past. It has made a valuable contribution to the development of the world culture and civilization. From ancient times the aboriginal population - the Georgian tribes were well known for their original and highly developed culture. The witness of it is great many relics and monuments that have survived not only in Georgia, but abroad as well, and the best proof of it is, that one of the existing 14 alphabets on the world is Georgian.
Christianity started to spread in Georgia from the 1st century, and became established as a state religion of Kartli in the 330s and about the same time in West Georgia as well.Georgian writing was first seen in the 5th century. The first examples include inscriptions in the Georgian monastery of the Holy Cross in Palestine, in the Bethlehem desert (Bir-ell-Kat
In 572, the Kartlians rose in arms and expelled the Persians. A local administrative state government or saerismtavro was instituted in Kartli. This early feudal state actually served as the basis for the creation of the future united Georgian monarchy. In the 7th-8th centuries, important sociopolitical changes took place in Georgia. The principalities (samtavros) of Kakheti, Hereti and Tao-Klarjeti, as well as the western Georgian Kingdom of Abkhazia, took shape in this period. A new force, the Arabs, appeared on the international scene in the 730s and 740s.
Giorgi XII desperately called on St. Petersburg to stand by its commitments of the Georgievsk treaty. But the terms of the treaty no longer satisfied the Russian goverment. In January of 1801, Paul I signed a manifesto which annexed East Georgia to Russia, in violation of the 1783 treaty.
IF ANYBODY WANT TO READ MORE GO http://ggdavid.tripod.com/georgia/history.htm
RUSSIA HAS A LONG-LONG ANGER WITH GEORGIANS BECAUSE GEORGIANS NEVER EVER OBEY RUSSIANS,GEORGIAN LAND IS EXTREMELY BEAUTIFUL AND THE PART WHICH IS THEY OCCUPIED ABKHAZIA IS THE BEST AND LOVELY PLACE,AND NOW UNFORTUNATELY
IN BARBARIANS HAND.
RUSSIA HAS NOTHING ONLY COLD PLACES. YOU CAN GROW NOTHING,THERE SOIL IS POOR.THAT WHY RUSSIA WANTS TO OCCUPY ALL CAUCASIAN SIDES. RUSSIANS DIE FROM STARVING .THEY HAVE NO FOOD BECAUSE OF THEIR COLD CLIMATE.
Unregistered user
Dear John, I agree with you.
Submitted by Unregistered user (not verified) on Wed, 03/09/2008 - 14:24.Dear John,
I agree with you. I am not disputing the issue of self determination, so long as it is wanted by the vast majority of the inhabitants and not imposed by the minority. I refer again to the Chechen question, Tibet, the Kurds, the Basques and where does it all end, Norfolk seceding from the United Kingdom? And how far do we go back, the Gauls in France and Germany, the Mongols in China - fat chance of China letting that go!
I also suggested that we shouldn't trust any politicians, East, West or otherwise, of particular note the Bush and Putin administrations . . . and don't even mention Gordon Brown! I think the western press does a reasonably good job of reporting from an independent and non partisan perspective - I don't believe the Russian press currently has such freedom of expression, so I suspect that you mean the western powers, but may I suggest in line with my comment above, that you add the Russians to that view.
Unregistered user
Reminder - comments
Submitted by Sophie Team ... on Tue, 02/09/2008 - 08:39.Once again can I remind everybody to refrain from making irrelevant or overly offensive comments, on either side of the argument. These parts of the comments will have to be censured or the entire post deleted.
Thanks,
Sophie, Team Observers
Sophie Team ...
Igor
Submitted by CommieSlave (not verified) on Sun, 31/08/2008 - 14:05.Dude,why do you dress like a used car salesman from 1975?,do us all a favor and button your shirt up,I assure you,we arent interested
Now,on to your propoganda,your ignorance about American military might would soon get your country raped lol,and it may yet
You've been barking to the polite ppl of our society,they've been kind to allow your drivel,but I'll put it to you straight,there is not ONE SINGLE THING about Russia the west would miss if you would all just please go away before you get yourself hurt,EVERYONE knows you need the west to have even the slightest chance at having a life with style and taste,"Russian refinement"?? it doesnt exist lol
Oh btw,everyones laughing at you and the things youve been saying,
Peace out
Unregistered user
This Blog,Sophie,Igor,France24
Submitted by Patriot (not verified) on Tue, 02/09/2008 - 02:29.Igor Frolov on Sat, 30/08/2008 - 10:20 Michael, your surname not is Saakashvili?:))) Submitted by Sophie Team This is not a place for personal attacks. Please stick to the subject at hand.
Thanks.
Igor Frolov on Sat, 30/08/2008 - 10:20 America with support of old obedient Europe? Igor Frolov your comment is too aggressive and doesn't bring anything valuable to the debate. Please refrain from making callous attacks.
Submitted by Igor Frolov on Mon, 01/09/2008 - 18:30.And if you behave as madly as do it now - it may need apply a strait jacket to you (I mean a country, but not you personally, although you behave as mentally sick man)Submitted by Sophie Team: This is not a place for personal attacks. Please stick to the subject at hand.your comment is too aggressive and doesn't bring anything valuable to the debate. Please refrain from making callous attacks.
Thanks
Submitted by I. Frolov (not verified) on Sat, 30/08/2008 - 10:00.Western mass-media have lost conscience and professional honour. It is the lowest degree of prostitution.Submitted by Sophie Team: This is not a place for personal attacks. Please stick to the subject at hand.your comment is too aggressive and doesn't bring anything valuable to the debate. Please refrain from making callous attacks.
Thanks
Submitted by I. Frolov (not verified) on Sat, 30/08/2008 - 10:00.Or it's a fear before the American owner? Or you the mother will sellfor money? Submitted by Sophie Team: This is not a place for personal attacks. Please stick to the subject at hand.your comment is too aggressive and doesn't bring anything valuable to the debate. Please refrain from making callous attacks.
Thanks
Submitted by Igor Frolov on Sun, 31/08/2008 - 21:24.And what answer will be given by your country to Russia? You are too weak to give any distinct answer.Submitted by Sophie Team: This is not a place for personal attacks. Please stick to the subject at hand.your comment is too aggressive and doesn't bring anything valuable to the debate. Please refrain from making callous attacks.
Thanks
Submitted by Igor Frolov on Sun, 31/08/2008 - 21:24.America is a nasty taste symbol - it is known to all.Submitted by Sophie Team: This is not a place for personal attacks. Please stick to the subject at hand.your comment is too aggressive and doesn't bring anything valuable to the debate. Please refrain from making callous attacks.
Thanks
why hasnt the moderator done this already?
maybe Sophie and "Igor" are the same person? good cop bad cop? or is France24 DECIDEDLY AntiAmerican?,maybe Sophie is unable to see Igor's comments?,whatever the case,this blog/Sophie/Igor is VERY biased against the west
Unregistered user
Dear Patriot! You are not
Submitted by Igor Frolov on Tue, 02/09/2008 - 11:38.Dear Patriot!
You are not right. It's not a blog Sophie/Igor, and we are not one person. Sophie very correctly watches for personal attacks. I recognize, that is unduly emotional, but I do not attack persons. I attack the countries, and why to me it to not do, if the 'civilized' world has attacked my country? there is an information war without rules, - look, as have cut Putin's interview! - it's simply ridiculously after that to speak about free western press.
And even my passage about surname Saakashvili is a kind joke. Unless it has not been declared in the West, what "all we are Georgians today"? And you, as the patriot, should understand, that surname Saakashvili is a heroic surname, and consequently is not the insult. About yours nikname I too can think, that you hint at rockets "Patriot", which Poland asks from the USA to put it against Russia. But you for certain against arms of Poland, you are the peace person and do not want military provocations? Or I am tragically mistaken?
Yours faithfully, Igor (very bad cop:)
Igor Frolov
RE: This Blog
Submitted by Sophie Team ... on Tue, 02/09/2008 - 08:31.Dear Patriot,
In fact the comments I was referring to when I asked that people refrain from personal attacks included swearing and violent threats. These parts of the comments were deemed too offensive and deleted. Igor Frolov's comments were considered reasonable.
Best,
Sophie
Sophie Team ...
RE: CommieSlave
Submitted by Sophie Team ... on Mon, 01/09/2008 - 09:16.This is not a place for personal attacks. Please stick to the subject at hand.
Thanks.
Sophie Team ...
I hope, I have offended
Submitted by I. Frolov (not verified) on Mon, 01/09/2008 - 09:32.I hope, I have offended nobody the statement about western массмедиа? I did not mean anybody personally.
Unregistered user
No, I was referring to the
Submitted by Sophie Team ... on Mon, 01/09/2008 - 09:46.No, I was referring to the comment made by CommieSlave.
Sophie Team ...
Please, write more
Submitted by Igor Frolov on Sun, 31/08/2008 - 20:24.Please, write more accurately, I not so well know English, as you. I am not assured that have understood correctly your message.
I will clasp a shirt, but the photo remains to the same:-))).
And what answer will be given by your country to Russia? You are too weak to give any distinct answer.
And about style and taste not you should speak, - America is a nasty taste symbol - it is known to all.
Igor Frolov
Re: Please, write more
Submitted by Григорий (not verified) on Wed, 03/09/2008 - 15:41.Игорь, на вкус и на цвет товарищей нет. Не нравится тебе Америка - да ради бога! Насильно тебя никто заставлять ее любить не будет, поверь мне (в отличие от "Я тебя научу родину любить!")! Так что, не нравится - не ешь! А мне очень даже нравится! Нравится тебе быть на побегушках у Путина и ему подобных - твое дело. А мне больше нравится иметь свободу выбора и всего остального тоже.
Бывай!
Unregistered user
Western mass-media have lost
Submitted by I. Frolov (not verified) on Sat, 30/08/2008 - 09:00.Western mass-media have lost conscience and professional honour. It is the lowest degree of prostitution. Or it's a fear before the American owner? Or you the mother will sellfor money?
About what Russian storm you write? Why have not told, what it was exile of the Georgian aggressors from Ossetia?
About what ethnic cleanings you write? Unless not Georgia has begun the genocide of the Osset people, and Russian have then broken canines of Georgia? If Russia has wanted, it would grasp Tbilisi and the mad president of Georgia, and would transfer it in Osset hands. But we have not made it. If America pushes Georgia once again, we will make it.
And for America I will tell a good Russian proverb: "Two bears cannot peacefully live in one den". Therefore I will remind the doctrine of Monroe - the zone of the American interests is in the Western hemisphere. And the zone of the Russian interests is in East hemisphere. Let America goes to own zone, let Europe will convince America to leave. Europe should make it if does not wish to have the big war in which Europe will be lost the first.
Igor Frolov, Russian journalist.
Unregistered user
It is my post
Submitted by Igor Frolov on Sat, 30/08/2008 - 09:11.I was registered and I confirm that it is my post.
Igor Frolov
I really wonder where are
Submitted by Turkmenbashi (not verified) on Fri, 29/08/2008 - 22:12.I really wonder where are those comments that were here under the article early in the morning? Were they deleted just because they were pro-Russian? That's funny, though still no wonder...
Unregistered user
Please be aware
Submitted by Sophie Team ... on Tue, 02/09/2008 - 08:35.We do not delete any comment unless it are overly offensive, irrelevant, or spam.
Perhaps the comments you were talking about were actually spam (people posing as webusers with links to commercial sites). In that case they would have been deleted.
Thanks,
Sophie
Sophie Team ...
Thanks, Sophie, for the
Submitted by Turkmenbashi (not verified) on Tue, 02/09/2008 - 17:43.Thanks, Sophie, for the answer. That day early in the morning there were 2 more comments, quite pro-Russian, but definitely not offensive, but later I couldn't find them anymore. I hope it was someone's mistake that is not going to be transformated into tendency. But I'll keep track:)
Unregistered user
sad
Submitted by Michael (not verified) on Thu, 28/08/2008 - 20:57.Russia's propaganda is influencing so many sheep the world over. All I hear is how the west is interfering and should butt out. No one seems to get the clue that Russia is chasing out the Georgians and creating a situation where they can absorb these two regions. It's called ethnic cleansing and it's a shame people aren't paying attention.
Unregistered user
I think, Europe must punish Georgia.
Submitted by Yuriy (not verified) on Sun, 31/08/2008 - 17:47.I just read an information on www.dailymail.co.uk that Georgian troops killed at least 2000 civilians and Russian troops killed 129 civilians....
So, who was the aggressor? I think, Europe must punish Georgia.
Unregistered user
Russians are liars
Submitted by Seneca264 (not verified) on Mon, 01/09/2008 - 16:25.Punish Georgia? You must be a first class idiot. You do not even know the facts and you make such statements. What a horses ass you are. Typical cowardly russian response. Wait until you have to confront a real enemy like the U.S. Russia's days are numbered. You will soon feel the wrath of the U.S.
Unregistered user
Buhaha
Submitted by Arise (not verified) on Tue, 02/09/2008 - 13:36.Do you really think so? USA can destroy at one time all our Nuclear weapon - missiles, submarines, strategic bombers?
There are very nice Russian saying - Do not try panic a hedgehog with nude ass
Unregistered user
Russians are liars... Really? :-)
Submitted by Dmitry Kim on Tue, 02/09/2008 - 12:23.Guys, we all now included in information war, you know? Russian media in it. USA media in it. EU media in it. We all in it.
So, your (as known) "undependable media" are liar.
Can you see the ARD-interview of Putin at 29/09? This link http://putin-ard.blogspot.com/ - it's German text of the interview. If you don't know German - http://realcorwin.livejournal.com/192546.html - Russian text. Sorry, I've no English text.
But if you want, you can see how many were cutted your democracy media from original text - this words are bold in Russian text, and italic - in German.
Use online translator, if you want.
And who is liars?
Very interesting this episod:
"Thomas Roth: Herr Ministerpräsident, nach der Eskalation in Georgien sieht das Bild in der internationalen Öffentlichkeit so aus – damit meine ich Politik, aber auch Presse: Russland gegen den Rest der Welt. Warum haben Sie Ihr Land mit Gewalt in diese Situation getrieben?
Wladimir Putin: Was meinen Sie, wer hat den Krieg begonnen?
Thomas Roth: Der letzte Auslöser war der georgische Angriff auf Zchinwali
Wladimir Putin: [Ich] Danke Ihnen für diese Antwort. So ist es auch, das ist die Wahrheit. Wir werden dieses Thema später ausführlicher erörtern. Ich möchte nur anmerken, dass wir diese Situation nicht herbeigeführt haben."
Dmitry Kim
It is not necessary to speak
Submitted by The Former Policeman (not verified) on Tue, 02/09/2008 - 12:10.It is not necessary to speak so precipitately. We, Russian, do not want war, but if it will be necessary, we will remind, than the Second World War has ended. It clearly or to translate?
Unregistered user