27/06/2008 / EGYPT
My
experience, living all my life in the only country in the world where we're
forced by law to wear the hijab [in Iran hijab is a general term for covering most of your body and hair], is that it does not reduce levels of sexual
harassment. In Iran
there are women who wear the chador — which is all black and covers a woman from head to foot except for her face — and they're
still harassed, even in the streets! I've met many men in Iran that tell
me being covered up makes you even sexier.
According
to Sharia law, a woman should wear a veil that covers her head and her body.
However, I think that personal choice counts above all. My wife wears a hijab
that covers her head and her body, but she also wears jeans underneath. If she
decided she didn't want to wear a veil anymore, then I wouldn't oppose it. I'd
respect her decision.
To keep the men away, just cover up
"You can't stop them. But you can protect yourself. Your creator has your best interests at heart."
One of our Observers in Egypt received this image in a forwarded email. The message to women: Cover up to protect yourself. We ask our Observers if whether covering up really deters unwanted attention.According to observers in Egypt, the hijab has crept up in popularity in recent years. It's not obligatory to cover up in the Arab republic and the government does little to promote the concept, but many Muslim women choose to cover their hair and bodies. This viral campaign, spread via forwarded email, suggests that women go one step further to "protect themselves". One of our Observers for Egypt told us that the person behind it is promoting the adoption of the niqab — a garment which covers everything but the eyes. Where the email originated, however, nobody seems to know. Despite efforts by some to track it through various sources, its origins remain unknown.
"I’ve met many men in Iran that tell me being covered up makes you even sexier"
Farnaz Seifi is a feminist from Iran. She wore a hijab her entire life until leaving the country to live in Europe last November.
My
experience, living all my life in the only country in the world where we're
forced by law to wear the hijab [in Iran hijab is a general term for covering most of your body and hair], is that it does not reduce levels of sexual
harassment. In Iran
there are women who wear the chador — which is all black and covers a woman from head to foot except for her face — and they're
still harassed, even in the streets! I've met many men in Iran that tell
me being covered up makes you even sexier.
This campaign stems from really radical Islam. It's pure propaganda. In real Islamic texts it only says to cover your hair and neck, not your face. And I personally think it's very insulting to compare a woman with a lollipop. Whoever created this image doesn't see women as equals, but just something to have sex with. If sexual harassment exists in a society, which it does in all of them, the way to tackle it is not to limit women's choice.
In Iran we'd wear jeans, Converse and a little scarf over the head that barely covered our hair. We made it a kind of fashion! Even so, since I left Iran I've never once worn a scarf. It was a very good feeling at first. I never liked it and I never chose it. I didn't bring one single scarf with me to Europe.
This veil subject is a problem. To force a woman to wear a certain thing her entire life? Even if there are only one or two women in the world who have a problem with it, that means that the problem exists."
"I know women who wear a hijab but go against Islamic beliefs"
Abdul Monem Mahmoud is a member of the Muslim Brotherhood from Cairo.
According
to Sharia law, a woman should wear a veil that covers her head and her body.
However, I think that personal choice counts above all. My wife wears a hijab
that covers her head and her body, but she also wears jeans underneath. If she
decided she didn't want to wear a veil anymore, then I wouldn't oppose it. I'd
respect her decision.
The veil isn't a proof of respectability. It's your behaviour in society that counts — your education and intelligence. I know women who wear a hijab but go against Islamic beliefs.
Personally, I find the depiction in this image simplistic because it's
saying that only women wearing a veil are serious.
But a lot of
people in Arabic and Egyptian society do support the idea of covering up. Arabic TV is often urging for stricter veils. There are some religious leaders in Egypt that are saying
women should wear a niqab or a burqa. But I think the idea has as little to do
with our Arabic or Egyptian culture as it does with the Islamic religion.
The ideas's been influenced by the Iranian model and by the Wahhabites [followers of a strictly orthodox form of Islam]. We must pay attention to how the TV channels convey the message. I'm from the Muslim Brotherhood, but I respect people's freedom. Above all, a woman must do what she wants to do."
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some thoughts
Submitted by ahmed Salah on Tue, 01/07/2008 - 09:23.I think that the West still has the old image about Arabs so we should change this image .
I think else that the western media dont view the total image about islam and muslims.
Unregistered user
Chupa chups and veil
Submitted by Alberto Celani on Mon, 30/06/2008 - 10:53.I think that in 2008 it's no time to focus on religion when u speak about human rights. A clear separation between religion and politics has created the Reinassance in Italy during the XV Century. Let's speak about rights not about religion, "leave speeches about religion to priests" we are used to say. Why dont we ask to every woman: black, white, green, blue..."Do u like to wear the veil?"...or better "I dont care if u like it or not...just do what u feel as u dont ask me if I like to wear my baseball cap when I go to the stadium". This is the best way to keep a peaceful relationship between people and, men, respect women, every woman, every human, with veil on or not.
Expo 2015 in Milano, Italy
Alberto Celani
Nice Thought...but....
Submitted by ToleranceLives (not verified) on Mon, 30/06/2008 - 14:02.Mr. Celani,
That is all very nice and well…. Wouldn’t it be nice if we could to do what you suggest???? Leave “religion” behind!!!! There are a few problems, however.
Here are two articles from LAST WEEK that tell you and anyone else who thinks like you (which is really nearly EVERYONE across the Western world…) why that nice idea you suggested WON”T and CAN”T work.
The problem is that there are MANY people who agree with you – and would just LOVE for us to “speak about rights, not about religion”, as you suggest – I don’t think you’d like them though. Here is one guy at the UN Commission on Human Rights, who found it best to do EXACTLY as you say….
http://www.nasdaq.com/aspxcontent/newsStoryPrintVer.aspx?cpath=20080618%...
I’m not sure I need not point out for your that the effect of what he decided, by leaving a discussion about RELIGION out of it, was ACTUALLY TO CLOSE DOWN F-R-E-E and O-P-E-N DEBATE WITHIN AN INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION THAT SUPPOSEDLY E-X-I-S-T-S TO PROTECT FREE SPEECH…AND TO PROTECT THOSE HUMAN RIGHTS WE VALUE SO HIGHLY FOR WOMEN? And, did you notice that those guys who wanted SO MUCH to AVOID THAT DISCUSSION OF RELIGION… just happened to be M-U-S-L-I-M???? Do you think there was a reason for that?????? How was this SAME STORY reported in, say, Pakistan, a Muslim country?????
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008/06/19/story_19-6-2008...
GREAT! MUSLIMS by avoiding a discussion of how the R-E-L-I-G-I-O-N OF ISLAM and SHARIA LAW bear on issues such as HONOR KILLING, FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION, THE STONING OF WOMEN, ETC. – ALL of which have their origin in ISLAMIC SHARIA LAW – you can now see that some people have some VERY BAD reasons for desiring to “leave religion out of it”…..
What’s the result? Now happening all over the West…. Don’t believe me????? A young Belgian woman raped in broad daylight in the Brussels central train station last week….
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/3355
Did you get that, Mr. Celani? “Two men reproached her for not wearing the veil”? Like an UNCOVERED PIECE OF CANDY, I guess???? Apparently they don’t agree with the New Testament verses I cited below to show we in the West think and act differently. But religion has no bearing? You tell us that “women should decide”. I cited New Testament passages that say “women should decide”. And you would like us to LEAVE RELIGION out of the conversation ABOUT HUMAN RIGHTS?
As the saying goes, “A people that does not know its past, is condemned to repeat it.”
Europe and the West, because it has forgotten – and can’t even INTELLIGENTLY DICSUSS – the source of it’s laws, values, and societies, will soon be condemned to repeat all of the pain and anguish that it took to bring us – as a result of the intellectual stimulation brought by Christianity in the context of science, philosophy, the arts, medicine, engineering, law, etc. – these stable, free, tolerant societies that we have had all the way...UP UNTIL NOW....
Here's some further reading....
http://davidthompson.typepad.com/davidthompson/2007/02/blunting_the_se.h...
AND
http://davidthompson.typepad.com/davidthompson/2007/02/the_perils_of_m.h...
ToleranceLives
Unregistered user
A Few Thoughts...
Submitted by ToleranceLives (not verified) on Mon, 30/06/2008 - 08:52.Here's a bit of a comparison from the New Testament:
As a refresher for those who forget and always cite to violence and gore from the Old Testament as some kind of proof that "Christianity is/was extreme too...", ehhhhhhhh, Christianity comes from, ehhhhh, the New Testament...NOT the Old Testament.... That stuff was left behind 2,000 years ago...and we were reminded of that again in 1517 at the Reformation....
In any case, the reason we don't need burqas and believe WOMEN are "raw meat" in need of being covered up is because Jesus said:
"But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." Matthew 5:28
In other words the RESPONSIBILITY in CHRISTIANITY is placed FULLY and COMPLETELY on E-A-C-H and every INDIVIDUAL, whether M-A-L-E OR F-E-M-A-L-E to control HIS or HER O-W-N THOUGHTS, DESIRES, MINDS, URGES, ACTIONS, etc. Y-O-U are RESPONSIBLE for A-L-L of YOUR behavior -- and by Christian teaching -- YOU will answer for YOUR SINS when the day you meet God. No human will judge you, God will judge you for your sins.
To make the this clear, the next passage in Matthew 5 says -- speaking FIGURATIVELY (Hello????) ;-) FIGURATIVELY...not LITERALLY dear readers...) that it would be better to rip out one's eye or rip off one's hand if...again, if Y-O-U YOURSELF can't control YOUR O-W-N MIND AND BODY. And, I guess if you CAN'T control YOUR OWN MIND AND BODY...well, that makes you no better than an imbecile or simple animal, I guess, right????
This is FULLY THE OPPOSITE of the Muslim way of thinking, where MEN are LITERALLY (and not FIGURATIVELY...) no better than FLIES. This teaching from the New Testament -- is the reason why WE in the WEST have lived in societies where...SURPRISE, SURPRISE, WE, both MEN and WOMEN, are and have always been expected to CONTROL our OWN THOUGHTS, DESIRES, MINDS, URGES, ACTIONS, etc. (Wow, self-responsibility, what a concept!!!) ;-)
As far as women needing to be covered or not, 1 Corinthians 11:13-16, Paul summarizes a long explanation of the matter in three ways, he says: 1) decide for YOURSELVES what you prefer -- Christians are EXPECTED to KNOW what is RIGHT from what is WRONG...and if anyone has problem knowing that, well, the New Testament is there to explain. (That is, women can wear something on their head if they want...don't have to if they don't want to...); 2) a woman's long hair is enough of a covering for her head -- EVEN WHILE PRAYING IN CHURCH; and 3) if you want to debate the matter, well, then, Paul says, the Christian churches have no set practice as to this issue. The exact words are:
"13 Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14 Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, 15 but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering. 16 If anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no other practice—nor do the churches of God."
Paul says that there is nothing requiring such in the Christian faith.
Finally, to the person who referred to a "veil on the heart", it comes from 2 Corinthians 3:16-20. It says the veil, both figuratively and literally, was a part of the Old Testament:
"16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord [e.g. Jesus and the New Testament message of love...], the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit."
Wow, no wonder a Muslim (especially men...) would hate Christianity so much...it's a religion that says act in love, know what is right, and that GOD requires them to CONTROL THEIR OWN sick, nasty, perverted, violent, misogynistic THOUGHTS, DESIRES, MINDS, URGES, etc. As opposed to, in Islam, BLAMING WOMEN and the SIN OF WOMEN for CAUSING the "weakness" -- or the sick, nasty, perverted, violent, misogynistic THOUGHTS, DESIRES, MINDS, URGES, ACTIONS -- of men.
Then to top it off with one VERY BIG additional DIFFERENCE, JUDGMENT for YOUR SINS does NOT come from your fellow HUMANS, it comes from GOD. So, no human will judge you, God will judge you for your sins. Thus, no jihad, no "holy" wars, no Old Testament punishments like stonings or lashings or amputations. In the West, only simple criminal and financial punishments for violating HUMAN-MADE government laws. Violating the laws set out in the Bible...that is ALL left up to when you meet GOD in the NEXT life.
For all those who have ever wondered why the Muslim world is as it is...and why the Christian world and individual in the West is left to police him or herself???? Well, above is the entire answer...it is no more difficult than 2,000 years of the application of the above ideas. Mon dieux, that these world's could be so different??? ;-) What a concept!!! ;-))))
ToleranceLives
Unregistered user
Responsibility of Choice is Freedom and Law
Submitted by Do No Harm (not verified) on Thu, 03/07/2008 - 01:53."the RESPONSIBILITY in CHRISTIANITY is placed FULLY and COMPLETELY on E-A-C-H and every INDIVIDUAL"
Yes how true.
This is the CORE of the issue:
Islam says: "Command Good" (i.e. of others) "and Forbid Evil" (i.e. in others)
Bible says: "Do Good" (i.e. you yourself) "and Keep from Evil" (i.e. by yourself).
One is coercive, oppressive, violent, dictatorial, Pre-Modern.
The other is demanding of individual growth, a responsibility of personal CHOICE, following of Laws, the Modernity.
Do No Harm
Unregistered user
So I guess that Muslim men
Submitted by Utilisateur non inscrit (not verified) on Sun, 29/06/2008 - 18:10.So I guess that Muslim men can be compared to flies spreading disease???
Unregistered user
Oh, now that's a lot of BS.
Submitted by Utilisateur non inscrit (not verified) on Sun, 29/06/2008 - 17:48.Oh, now that's a lot of BS. The moslem brotherhgood is trying to infiltrate Europe. The documents were discovered in Switzerland in 2001.
You people respect noone and we need you all to return to your native lands.
If you hat the West so much don't choose to live there.
Unregistered user
to keep the men away just cover up
Submitted by mollyrambo57 (not verified) on Sat, 28/06/2008 - 04:13.why in the world do muslim society and governments, absolutely refuse to hold men accountable for their words, behavior and actions, a woman can be very modest in public while dressed in a pair of jeans and a nice top, here behavior and the way she carries herself, it does not require that she ware a headscarf, or complete body covering what counts is how she carries herself, and her refusal to put up with being harrassed, it's time these morals police be put to far better use by making sure that a woman going about her business is not harrassed by men that do not want to control themselves, it has been well documented for years that a woman can be wearing a full cover except for her face and hands and with her actions be far sexer than if she were fully naked, IT'S ABOUT TIME THAT MEN BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR WORDS AND ACTIONS. BECAUSE WHAT YOU ARE REALLY SAYING BY MAKING A WOMAN RESPONSIBLE FOR COVERING UP, WEARING NO MAKEUP, AND ALL KINDS OF REGULATIONS IS TO START TREATING MEN LIKE THEY ARE ADULTS INSTEAD OF CHILDREN BY HOLDING THEM ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS, THE SOUND OF IT IS THAT MEN SHOULD HAVE GUARDIANS FOR LIFE AS THE WAY THE SAUDIS SAY IT MEANS THAT THESE LITTLE BOYS ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR WORD AND DEED, SHAME ON YOU SAUDIES, STOP TREATING 1/2 THE ADULTS IN YOUR SOCIETY LIKE CHILDREN, MAKE MEN RESPONSIBLE, WITH WOMEN TREATED AS FULL EQUALS YOUR SOCIETY WILL GROW BY LEAPS AND BOUNDS
Unregistered user
I wish
Submitted by Jan (not verified) on Sat, 28/06/2008 - 01:47.I wish everyone, Muslims and Christians and Jews and Hindus and everyone, would listen to Jesus. When he was asked about whether women should wear the veil, he told men to 'put the veil in your own heart.' Then, if men would only do that, leave women alone, leave pornography alone, live chastely themselves, without danger women could go about the world and all the many contradictions, 'sexier with the hijab, sexier without,' and so forth. Who pities the poor virtuous woman seeking merely to live her life and love her family? Anyone who loved justice would weep. It's true that all men are sinners, but they might have a care and demand virtue of themselves regarding women instead of demanding that we 'cover up' and then taunt us and tell us we're sexier covered up!
Unregistered user
Comparing Muslim men to flies!
Submitted by Nannette (not verified) on Sun, 29/06/2008 - 17:28.I like the way the advert compares Muslim men to flies!
This advert is more of an indictment on Muslim men and their lack of self-control, than it is on women who have no choice but to cover up in Muslim society, because there's no self-restraint amongst the men.
Unregistered user
Of course muslim men are not flies.
Submitted by Ahmad Sayed (not verified) on Mon, 30/06/2008 - 14:03.Of course muslim men are not flies.
Islam is not just a religon for muslims, it's a way of life. Allah, through prophet Mohammad (PBUH) taught us the fundementals of living (being our creator). I'll give you an example for that. On a very small scale to make the picture clearer for the reader: if you buy a nokia phone you will read a nokia catalogue to know how to operate your device.This goes with every single problem in your life, if any issue that affects your life pops out you will go stright away to someone who can help you with a solution. As muslims we have the solution with our creator (Allah) and Allah's religon (islam). True muslims listen to and obey all words of Allah and prophet Mohammad (PBUH).
Muslim females are ordered (not forced) in the Quran (WORDS OF ALLAH) to wear the islamic dress (which covers the hair/body). If the girl doesnt want to wear it no one can force her to do so, but she will be accountable infront of Allah on the day of judgement.
Men who verbally or physically harrass females (that are covered or uncoverd) are ordered and FORCED not to do so. If a man (muslim or non muslim) committed such a crime he must be punished really hard by the law of islam and will still be accountable infront of Allah on the day of judgement. These men were labelled in the photo as FLIES. By the way, FLIES are found in all religons.
The main purpose of hijab is primarly for the physical+internal modesty of the girl and her islamic integrity. If the girl is internally modest and doesnt want to wear the hijab she will be losing her islamic physical feature. There will be no difference between a muslim and a non muslim female in terms of physical appearance which is an important factor as a muslim female.
I dont think it was degrading for females when the female was represented as a lollipop in the photo. All children love lollipops and so do a lot of adults regardless of their sexes. The lollipop was used in this context to show how sweet and delicate a female is, and the photo wasnt conveying any dirty thoughts. Of course all dirty men (FLIES) will attack a sweet lollipop if its not covered. However if the lollipop is covered few dirty men (FLIES) will try to attack it but not as much as being uncovered. By the way, the photo still shows a fly around the covered lollipop which means that covering the lollipop is not the only way to keep the flies away but covering still counts.
If prophet Jesus (PBUH) was discussing this issue I dont think he (PBUH) will be using some of the offensive and hurting language as some of the writers did. As a muslim I read other religions to face everyone with the truth not using any offensive and rude language to make their religious rules seem funny or making no sense.
As a muslim I invite every single person to think deeply and avoid the narrow mind of racism that might deviate people from the right track.
Unregistered user
Islam a race?
Submitted by Utilisateur non inscrit (not verified) on Thu, 03/07/2008 - 13:01.I didn't know that Islam was a race.
And Jesus was very direct about every evil - he did not mince His words. Go read the New Testament first before making assumptions - there's no need to assume what His responses would have been, since He has already declared the truth from the lie about every aspect of moral and immoral behaviour.
The freedom enjoyed in the West is because the West was founded on Christian principles to begin with, but weak immigration laws have diluted its social fabric and now we sit with a problem.
Further, go on, please refute the commands given by the Quran to kill or submit Christians and Jews to dhimmi status - I have yet to see a "moderate" Muslim do so - and don't come with some nonsense about not allowing the killing of innocent people: who's innocent in the eyes of the Quran and Islam - a Christian? a Jew? an atheist? - or a Muslim.
Unregistered user